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Posted by
House Marvin
4 days ago
Moderator of r/asoiafStickied post

Welcome to the Weekly Q & A! Feel free to ask any questions you may have about the world of ASOIAF. No need to be bashful. Book and show questions are welcome; please say in your question if you would prefer to focus on the BOOKS, the SHOW, or BOTH. And if you think you've got an answer to someone's question, feel free to lend them a hand!

Posted by
House Marvin
2 days ago
Moderator of r/asoiafStickied post

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Seeing things happen in the book that some fans currently swear definitely will or won't happen which turns out to be completely wrong.

Likely no one will admit to being wrong on their theories but say "I saw this coming from a mile off, it was obvious Euron is secretly everyone"


Yesterday, I had a discussion with my brother about the responsibility of Catelyn Stark for the downfall of her family. We were walking home around three o'clock in the morning and him, being on his first re-watch of the series, stated that Catelyn Stark is responsible for the civil war by seizing Tyrion and the downfall of her family by freeing Jamie.

He argued that because she seized Tyrion in the Crossroad Inn, Jamie attacked Ned and fled the capital. Further, because of seizing Tyrion, Tywin sent the Mountain that Rides to scourge the Riverlands to which Ned reacted by sending Beric Dondarrion to bring justice to the mountain. A part of Ned's guard accompanied Beric which led to Ned being less defended in Kings Landing, thus being dependent of the Gold Cloaks and Littlefinger bribing them and that led in the end to him being imprisoned and decapitated.

I replied that this is true but there is no way Catelyn could have forseen this chain of events. There are so many decisions by other characters which, if those decision would have been made differently, would have changed everything. And don't forget that Catelyn had only a few seconds to make a decision. She didn't have the time to evaluate every possible outcome (there were so many) but had to briefly estimate the few most probable outcomes. And in any of those she would have ended up with a very valuable hostage in a position of power and pushed the Lannisters in the defense. So, as she saw it, it was a clever move. Neither could she know about how insane and irrational her sister has become.

Her second, as my brother put it, blunder, was the freeing of Jamie. I agree with him that this was a stupid decision but she was understandably shaken by the supposed murder of Bran and Rickon and afraid of loosing all her children. I would blame a system in which a person of power can just show up and command any guard to stand aside and let a prisoner free while this person is clearly in no mental state to make any important political decisions. Checks and balances failed horribly.

I want to clear that I'm in no way a diehard Catelyn fan and I think she made many mistakes. But as one cannot blame a butterfly flapping its wings somewhere in Australia for a hurricane wrecking the eastcoast of the United States, one cannot blame Catelyn for everything that happend after her decisions. She had some influence, no point in denying that, but she could in no way have forseen the outcome of her decisions in the time of the decision-making.

I just wonder what you guys think of her responsibility and whether she should or could have foreseen how her decisions would unfold.

Post image

Edit: Im clearly bad at formatting, I made it as manageable and as readable as possible. If anyone wants to give me tips Id be happy to edit post again.

I'm going to attempt to summarize my ending of A Song of Ice and Fire using my favourite (the ones I most subscribe to) theories that the community has created over the years. I will also use the ending of the show as a rough template for some plot points, as I believe there will be similarities, but that they wont be 1:1. Finally, I do not have the time to edit this post with links all the theories and quotes from sources, nor do I think it is necessary to do so. This is because most of these thoughts have been floating around the subreddit for years and most of you are likely familiar with them. I've linked some of the more obscure theories videos/posts to understand my ending, but I won't bother with proofs for theories like (f)Aegon because of how commonly posted they are here.

This is a summary of the endings to most of the important plot lines, so it will involve resolving plots with a couple sentences. Much of the small intricacies of decisions will be left out.



Mereen story line will end with Dany using dragons to take down the Khals and thus taking command of a large Dothraki army. With said army they will win the battle of Fire that is starting at the beginning of TWOW. Dany will decide to go West to take the Iron Throne. (Similar to show, the specific reason for abandoning Mereen is lost on me)

**Faceless Men and Arya**


This is the toughest to resolve, but I personally subscribe to Preston Jacobs idea of the FM and their motives. PJ isn't the most reliable when it comes to theories, but his FM videos are fantastic and do a lot to explain their motives. They are hired by (f)Aegon and his supporters. The main evidence being the Blackfyre currency they have floating around in the Arya and Pate chapter(s). This explains why Jaquen was heading North originally (to kill Bloodraven) and why he decides to help Arya and end up going to Oldtown (for the glass candle). Please watch Preston's videos if you want the specific details, but I find it well supported.

This explains why they train Arya despite her clear reluctance to be join the order of Faceless men (something never explained in the show). In the show she just gets training then leaves and the Faceless men dont care. ????. Odd. In the books it makes sense because the FM never wanted Arya to be No One. They wanted her to be Arya + FM skills. They want her to kill those on her list in order to destabilize Westeros for the (f)Aegon invasion.


... marry Robert Arryn instead of all the shenanigans about Harry the Heir?


Just noticed an interesting literary parallel between the "Shade" of Renly Baratheon at the Battle of the Blackwater, and Achilles in the Illiad. I'm sure it's been pointed out elsewhere, but I haven't seen it discussed.

A major breakthrough for the Lannisters at the Battle of the Blackwater occurs when Tywin and Mace Tyrell's armies arrive to smash Stannis Baratheon's host outside the walls of the city. They're led by the Shade of Renly Baratheon, the recently-deceased king who had the support of much of the smallfolk.

Captain Khorane had told him of the end of Stannis's hopes, on the night the river burned. The Lannisters had taken him from the flank, and his fickle bannermen had abandoned him by the hundreds in the hour of his greatest need. "King Renly's shade was seen as well," the captain said, "slaying right and left as he led the lion lord's van. It's said his green armor took a ghostly glow from the wildfire, and his antlers ran with golden flames."


Later we find out that it was Mace Tyrell's second-oldest son Garlan wearing Renly's armor to rally the troops.

"Tell me, ser. Who was wearing Renly's armor?"

For a moment Loras Tyrell looked as though he might refuse, but in the end he remembered his vows. "My brother," he said sullenly. "Renly was taller than me, and broader in the chest. His armor was too loose on me, but it suited Garlan well."

So, Garlan Tyrell, on behalf of Renly's lover Loras Tyrell, put on Renly's armor to inspire the soldiers inspire fear in Stannis' army. This tactic was used, at least according to Homer's Illiad, at the siege of Troy by another pair of same-sex lovers. Achilles wouldn't fight after he was insulted by Agamemnon, leading the Greeks to suffer huge losses. When they were about to be wiped out, Achilles' lover Patroclus begged Achilles to allow him to put on Achilles' distinctive armor to rally the Greeks.


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Jul 18, 2009

Cake Day

News and discussions relating to George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" novels, his Westeros-based short stories, "Game of Thrones" and all things ASOIAF - but with particular emphasis on the written series.

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